Posts by Anony Mous

35

Why have you remained theists?

by Silent_Scream in

i realize many on this forum are atheist, and theres many threads to show why.

some believe creationist lack knowledge or understanding and that we are too ignorant to realize there isn't a creator.. i have studied (not in depth) first year college science, and am studying medical/health currently.

i am also very interested in astronomy, and have learned a little in that area.

Anony Mous

My issue with the bible-god or the Jesus-god is:

1) Can anyone prove with a certainty (and not from their holy books that say so because I can pull several older-than-the-bible holy books that say another thing) that there is only 1 god.

2) If Jesus came to earth, why didn't he bring with him at least some knowledge to improve people's lifes overnight. Why does he require faith without giving a shred of (lasting) evidence of his ancestry? Wouldn't more people see him as a god if he changed medicine overnight instead of spitting on disabled people to heal a few of them?

3) Pascal's wager says that you have 2 choices with 1/4 chance in being right, 1/2 chance in being wrong without consequence and 1/4 chance in being wrong with bad consequence so he chooses the 3/4 chance to be either right or wrong without consequence. However the bible-god says that there is only 1 god and 1 way of worshipping him although there are hundreds of gods and millions of ways people worship their gods. The bible-god is going to be very angry if you make the wrong choice but you only have 1 in a million chance of making the right one. I rather not play with those odds.

4) Why would an all-loving, all-powerful creator of everything require worship from us? Does he feel insecure? Does he have ulterior motives for it? Why would he punish us for it?

5) If you're a Christian and say you believe in the Bible, you have to believe in all of it. However the Bible several times contradicts itself not only on just who and what their god is but also his temper, motives and requirements. Even Jesus' story contradicts itself if you look at the different gospels. How can you put trust in something that is not much better in unity than a volume of Watchtowers?

35

Why have you remained theists?

by Silent_Scream in

i realize many on this forum are atheist, and theres many threads to show why.

some believe creationist lack knowledge or understanding and that we are too ignorant to realize there isn't a creator.. i have studied (not in depth) first year college science, and am studying medical/health currently.

i am also very interested in astronomy, and have learned a little in that area.

Anony Mous

I am no longer a theist but I recognize the right of others as above to do so. The reason they do so however is to explain the unexplained as N.drew said it, "God put the things (he claimed atoms and molecules, the things he doesn't know yet how they are formed (in his 3rd year, must be a US school )) in motion" and that's what I also thought until I found out what put those things in motion (physics and particle physics). And it ain't God.

Ultimately if we can find proof for one of the several hypothesis and create a theory regarding the forming of quarks, leptons and boson's (and that's one of the several experiments being carried out in the last decades in physics) God will ultimately cease to exist except in the minds of the wilfully ignorant ones.

And yes, empty space-time (nothing) is hypothesised to be able to create a Universe with such subatomic particles (it's a lot of math) and hopefully the Large Hadron Collider or maybe astrophysicists or some other large experiment involving lots of money will find (usually leftovers) proof of that in the next decade or maybe 2. I really hope before my kid goes to college.

34

What would the WT do if anti shunning laws were passed?

by Aussie Oz in

what would the wt do if say, a country or countries enacted a law that made shunnung illegal?.

punishable by time in prison or heavy fines?.

would they have the gall to 'obey god as ruler' rather than man, and actually continue the practice in defiance of the law even though they would incur the wrath of governments?

Anony Mous

They already agreed to end the shunning policy in Bulgaria. On the other end they never said you should be shunning (it doesn't state that anywhere) and EVERY teaching can be followed or not followed, as WT spokesmen often say "It's up to the individual what they decide to do".

The thing is we're free to do whatever we want however we must also "take the consequences of such actions" the local elders tell me which does involve shunning. So you are not obliged to shun anyone, that's for each person to decide but beware if you make the wrong decision, then we'll shun you but again, it's up to each person to decide whether or not they'll shun you personally!

43

Australia Newspaper alerts: JWs likens "defectors to 'contagious deadly disease'

by Gayle in

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/jehovas-witnesses-defectors-cop-a-blast/story-fn7x8me2-1226155212128.

Anony Mous

I talked with a JW today about the article. He first said the Watchtower never said that. I said, well you must not have attended the last few meetings then. After SHOWING THE PROOF, he said WTBTS didn't mean "mentally diseased", he said they meant "spiritually diseased" because in our translation (Dutch) the word (geestelijk) is a homonym for both mental and spiritual. I said, but you are in the English congregation and you have the English Watchtower and the Watchtower is translated FROM English.

He said, well in medical circles (he's a non-practicing social worker assistant) you can be mentally sick (again using the homonym) when you have problems with your religion and you can also be mentally sick when you have mental problems. I eventually pulled Hitler on him and said "if the society says they are going to rule the earth in paradise they are already set up as a government right?" Agreed. "Well, do you want a government to put a label on anyone that disagrees with them, you know who that did? Hitler and he said Jews and others were mentally diseased".

He said, "well they didn't say mentally handicapped, they said diseased because you can get healed".

311

"Mentally diseased" article to be published in The Independent tomorrow

by cedars in

hi everyone.

as a parting gift to you all before i take a much needed break from this forum, i thought you would be pleased to know that the independent, a leading uk newspaper, will be publishing a piece on the "mentally diseased" watchtower article in tomorrow's edition.. i would like to thank everybody who has assisted the journalist, jerome taylor, in his investigation.. best wishes to all of you,.

cedars.

Anony Mous

http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5091/Religie/article/detail/2939384/2011/09/30/Jehovah-s-Getuigen-Afvalligen-zijn-geestelijk-ziek.dhtml

It's in Dutch. I auto-translated it with some minor corrections.

Jehovah's witnesses: Renegades are mentally sick

Jehova's testify in song during a service in the French Villepin. © afp

Remain from the neigborhood of renegades. They are mentally sick, warns the illustrated magazine of the Jehovah's Witnesses in a recent edition.

"Renegades uses 'falsified words' or incorrect arguments to let their ideas seem true", proclaims the Wachttoren in its edition of last July. "Remain therefore from their neighborhood, just like when a doctor says avoid contact with someone who has a contagious, deadly sickness. Renegades are mentally sick and try contaminate others with their incorrect teachings."

Threatened
According to leavers of the church in the United Kingdom and the Netherlands many organizations of Jehovah's prohibit association with renegades. Trouw got into possession a copy of the illustrated magazine meant for its private circle.

In the Netherlands according to their own counts Christian Congregation of Jehovah's witnesses have 30 thousand members. Association with outsiders is taboo, unless it concerns preaching to the door.

Illegal
The British police force examines at present if the judgements in the illustrated magazine are illegal. Ex-members consider also a complaint at the British Commission for charities.

According to a British spokesman of the church renegades are free in their choice. "We recognise their right to departure", he told in the daily The Independent. The British police force examines if the judgements in the illustrated magazine are illegal.

Ice
The Dutch expenditure finds oneself legally possible on ice. The booklet is translated from English and printed in Germany. As a result, the product is a German product legally seen.

Lawyer Gerard Spong lets know that the denomination is possibly illegal to German law. "That case law judges sometimes more strictly than Dutch. Germans have more experience with the painful impact of execrating minorities."

Second Member of Parliament Ronald van Raak (SP) insisted recently at minister Opstelten (justice) on a study into sects. "Sometimes religious behaviour is threatening rather than illegal. In such cases a reporting point is possibly significant. Perhaps we can establish a research or offer to ex-Jehova's a listening ear."

1

Awake! 1999 3/8 and the disputes about the "fathers of aviation"

by ZionsWatchTower in

you know the dispute about the "fathers of aviation" betwen brazilians and americans?.

brazilians believe that santos dumont is the "father of aviation".. americans believe that the wright brothers are the "fathers of aviaton".. more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/alberto_santos-dumont#the_first_fixed-wing_aircraft:_the_14-bis_versus_the_wright_flyers.

well, in 1999, the wts published in awake!

Anony Mous

This is what it says in my version (EU) in the footnote:

Some claim that in 1901, Gustave Whitehead (Weisskopf), a German immigrant living in Connecticut, U.S.A., also flew the airplane that he invented. However, there are no photos to substantiate this claim.

12

what is the scripture that dubbies use to say its ok to disfellowship and ignore people ?

by looloo in

jw
friends

Anony Mous

Interesting that Paul/John mentions: One called a brother that is also doing stuff wrong. I asked once: if you disfellowship people, they are no longer considered brothers but as one outside, in the world, how do you justify taking such action against worldly persons.

The answer was: Should we associate with wordly persons?

Another question was: So what do you think it means? I said, "well evidently back in the day they would have those that tell others they are Christians maybe from another congregation and attempt to teach while their actions show they are not. Paul wrote about those types of people, those that were teaching but were not really Christians. There was no historical or biblical evidence of extensive communication between the congregations as far as membership so this was to guard against imposters". The kicker comes with the answer "just as today, the first century Christians had records and the elders simply sent letters to the Governing Body when somebody arrives just like we do to the branch office, there was no such thing as imposters, the Governing Body knew everybody in all congregations and just as today they would have letters of recommendation, they wouldn't just allow anyone in the congregation to teach". I answered "Interesting, can you prove that from either secular or biblical sources?"

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Anony Mous

It's been 24 hours, in typical JW fashion, after making a valid argument against their viewpoint, the arguer disappears. He used to post here every 3 hours but he can't argue against his own quoted texts taken into context? Typical.

41

You All Need To Read This New Letter Sent To All Conregations In Victoria Australia About Police Checks For Elders

by Hairyhegoat in

jw
friends

police minister peter ryan has written a letter to mr unthank advising that jw's are now applying, in mass, for the wwc in victoria.

to little to late.

criminal charges still stand and cannot be backdated!

Anony Mous

As the US documents elsewhere on this site show - the JW congregations are already individualized with a criss cross of separate non-profit organizations and corporations for each project, congregation, building, committee etc. This is done for exactly this reason - to shield themselves from legal issues. If you read through the documentation on the statutes for each of those corporations - only when there are no debts (which would include legal issues) is the title and remainder of the money to be handed over to the WTBTS or if WTBTS doesn't exist or is no longer tax-exempt then to another organization appointed by the Governing Body. Guess who gets stuck with the legal issues and any debts if there are any, well the local elders that were stupid enough to sign without reading into the statutes.

They are volunteers of their local Congregation (and whatever corporation or non-profit that has attached to it).

68

Download While You Can!

by Atlantis in

credit goes to anony mous=http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/215963/1/ready-to-leak-wikileaks-style=anony mous wrote:=hi,=i have a cache of documents that are direct from the branch.

they include letters, forms, videos, booklets, instructions on how to handle everything in kingdom hall locally and rbc's financially and otherwise.=includes the branch's instructions on how to write the local incorporations so that all assets go to watchtower inc. and in case that corporation doesn't exist anymore or is no longer tax free, to the governing body (that's what it says!).

i have them for all states but only going to include ny (since that's where they are located).

Anony Mous

Hey Teary, In typical JW style you highlighted the words that go with your interpretation. As I said take the context into mind:

"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion

There are plenty of JW dissenters that believe they do follow the words of JC and have Godly devotion yet they are marked as apostates.